Answer to Relebohile

Here is yet another comment received on June 1, 2013 that needs to be addressed by the Repent and Believe South Africa ministries. This comment is in response to a blog posting titled “The Twelve Apostles’ Church in Christ HERESIES”  (please read first) that appeared on August 15, 2012.

Relebohile commented, quote:

“I wonder Gary if u think u wil c de kingdom of God while u r still in hatred with the Apostles, bcos wat u wrote here can jst tell d hatred dat u hv against the church or the leader of the church, read Jhn 3: 13-16. my qn is: do u really think dat u were gonna accept Christ if he was to cum 2u now, b careful dat u were jst gonna do de same things dat believers of his times did (read dis nd see if u r not thinking in d same way as dem, Jhn 7:27). Jst to let u knw dat de Apostles r going no where anytime sooner, read Jhn 17 de whole of it but plz read Jhn 17:20 twice, den Mthw 10:40; Acts 8:17-19; Mthw 28:18; Mthw 10:18-22 nd read wth understanding my dear brada or sista. And Jst 2help u out, Jesus Christ said the WILL of God is to believe the ONE He have sent (Jhn 6:29) not evn doz who knw the scriptures like u do my dear (Jhn 5:39). u can build ur church else where but if it is not on the rock foundation u will be jst lyk a some1 who didn’t build at all wen de rain cums (Mthw 7:24). TACC daz not preach hatred nd violence as u do, mayb if u can calm down nd giv dem a chance dey can teach u 1thing or 2, dey wil not judge u 4dey are givn d authority 2 4giv ur sins, instead dey wil giv u d love of God 4God nd Christ is only known by doz whom de son has chozn & revealed to dem, his disciples (Mthw 11:27)”

Repent and Believe South Africa responds as follows:

Dear Relebohile

Firstly, please note – It would be appreciated if you would write in eloquent English instead of the “electronic-media abbreviated speak” that can be misleading if someone doesn’t understand it. It would also help when someone wants to do a translation in “bing” or some other system, so it could help them to be a part of the conversation and understand what is being said. Otherwise, it looks just like gibberish!

I do not hate the true Apostles of the Holy Bible, nor do I hate the “false apostles” of the TACC. I however do wish that they will recant their false teachings and repent! Please understand, if any person says something that is contrary to what God’s Holy Word teaches, it needs to be examined in context. Pray to God and allow the Person of the Holy Spirit to teach you the Truth. Listen to how God brings an indictment against those that believe in “false apostles” even speaking through the true Apostle Paul who spoke to the ekklesia at Corinth as we read 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ~

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

From what you have said from your opening statement which reads “while u r still in hatred with the Apostles, bcos wat u wrote here can jst tell d hatred dat u hv against the church or the leader of the church, read Jhn 3: 13-16” it can be seen that you have misquoted Scripture just as the TACC members have wont to do to fit with their dogma. In your context you are making it known that “the Apostles” are in question here and you equate what has been written by me to be against “the church or the leader of the church.” The word “bcos” (because) links your accusation against the apostles with them being “the church  or the leader of the church.” When you go and read John 3:13-16 you will find that it does not speak of the apostles, as it is written:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You see the portion of Scripture that you refer to is actually the Lord Jesus Christ speaking about Himself, being the Son of man. How can you misuse a portion of Scripture so elementary as reading it in context and not realise that it does not speak of the apostles’ church or leadership?

Sir, you go on and quote Scriptures making reference to the whole of John 17, then John 17:20 (I am not sure of the spiritual aspect of reading it twice as you requested?), Matthew 10:40, Acts 8:17-19, Matthew 28:18 and Matthew 10:18-22. These particular Scriptures do not limit the text just to “apostles” as you want them to read and understand them to be. Let us look at some of the Scripture portions you refer to with  a proper explanation ~

  • John 17 ~ This chapter can be divided into three sections: 1. Christ prays for Himself (verses 1-5); 2. Christ prays for His disciples (verses 6-19); and 3. Christ prays for all believers (verses 20-26). There is no limitation. You read from the Holy Scriptures who the Lord Jesus Christ is praying for in context.
  • John 17:20 ~ In context you can read and understand who the Lord Jesus Christ was addressing here. They are would be believers who would come to believe through the preaching of the disciples. Go to John 17: 18,19 which reads ~ “18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.In verse 20 the portion of text that says “Neither pray I for them alone,” makes reference to the commissioned disciples in the preceding verses to which the Lord Jesus Christ prayed for as He confirms that they “shall believe on me [Jesus] through their word [disciples];” [my emphasis and hereafter]. Cross reference the preceding sentence with the Holy Writ found in Acts 8:1 and 4 which read as follows ~ 1 And Saul [Paul] was consenting unto his death [Stephen]. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. 4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.” You see disciples were commissioned and it is not only given to “apostles” as you allude to. That is the whole dogma of the TACC that only “living apostles” can lay hands and impart the Holy Spirit, and read and interpret the Scriptures.
  • Matthew 10:40 ~ This text does not speak about “apostles.” It is referring to all disciples, believers upon the Lord Jesus Christ. To get context go back to Matthew 10:37 ~ “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” And cross reference in context with Luke 14:26 ~ “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Context is so important. Do not use verses in isolation.
  • Acts 8:17-19 ~ You have not considered this portion of Scripture carefully. I agree that the first Apostles of the first century did lay their hands on people who received the Holy Spirit. This was attesting signs by the Apostles to confirm the Gospel. This is not the only way that the Holy Spirit was given. At Pentecost we read where no hands were laid on the disciples by “apostles” as we read in Acts 2:1-4 ~ 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Then we also read in Act 2:38 ~ “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”  In Act 4:31 ~ “And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.” In Act 10:44 ~ “While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” In Act 11:15 ~ “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” In Act 19:6 ~ “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” But here is how you get the Holy Spirit. The Lord Jesus Christ tells us in Luke 11:13 ~ “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” You do not need a “living apostle” to lay hands on a person to receive the Holy Spirit as the TACC teaches in its dogma. That is why this is a TACC HERESIE!

There is sufficient evidence already presented from the Holy Word of God for us to discontinue with the exegesis of the other remaining Scriptures you mention. It only takes 0.01% untruth to corrupt the remaining 99.99%. TRUTH is 100% in the One True God Jesus Christ!

And to correct you sir, I certainly do not want to build a church in my name or any other name. The Lord Jesus Christ is Head and Builder of His Church. Man has made a churchianity system and put it in place calling it god (idolatry). How can you go to something which you are? Go figure!

If you have taken my love for hatred then you are deceived. Please read Isaiah 5:20,21 very carefully ~

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Isaiah 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Please Repent sir, Ukupenduka!

“Why” Some People Quit Going to Church

The School of Christ

The Last Exodus

by Chip Brogden

Many people are beginning to see the truth. They are beginning to see that there is a called-out remnant of people – a “Church in the Wilderness” that God is separating and calling out of Organized Religion.

And this is not a mere reaction to being hurt, or rejected, or just being rebellious. It is actually the fulfilment of a prophetic sequence of events that has already been established in the Scriptures and in the history of the nation of Israel. It is the final calling out of a remnant of Overcomers who will bear the Testimony of Jesus and stand for the pre-eminence of Christ in all things as we prepare for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and for the inevitable judgment upon those who claim to represent Him, but do not.

These Overcomers have been called by God to forsake “Churchianity” – not to forsake the joining and assembling of the members of Christ’s Body, but to forsake the hypocrisy of the religious spirits that masquerade as the Holy Spirit. They are not forsaking the people of God, they are forsaking the counterfeit, hypocritical worship of God that Jesus Himself condemned as “vain worship” – it does not meet the Lord’s Need or satisfy God’s heart. They have rejected a religious system that is led by blind leaders of the blind. They are simply following the command of Jesus to “leave them alone” (Mt. 15:14).

Other men and women of God have seen these things in the past, but many would not speak of them openly and freely. They would only go so far and in many cases they were still very much a part of the religious system, still trying to reform it or calling it to repent. Someone like A. W. Tozer, who was a prophetic voice to his generation, yet still operated as a pastor within the religious system. That may have been acceptable in that generation, and in that season.

But we are in a different season now. The spirit of Religion is worse, darker, and more deceptive than ever. The days when you could be a part of that system and try to speak against it are over. Many men and women of God saw the truth about Churchianity but still tried to maintain fellowship, ties, or rapport with it in hopes of changing it. Often they preached the pre-eminence of Christ, but they did not make it clear what that leads to: a repudiation of everything that does not give Christ the pre-eminence, and in particular, those things that are said and done in the Name of Jesus but have nothing to do with Jesus. Perhaps that was acceptable in their generation, and maybe it was permissible to let people fill in the blanks and come to their own conclusions.

But this generation is different. What could be left unsaid in times past now needs to be made crystal clear. If you follow this revelation of Christ to its ultimate conclusion, and if you truly desire to give Him pre-eminence in all things, then you will eventually find that you have nothing in common with the religious system that man has created in His Name.

The Cloud has moved on, and if we want to live, we had better follow the Cloud. You cannot have one foot in and one foot out. You cannot go back to Egypt or get comfortable in Babylon. You cannot stop and camp out with the latest truth, when God has called you to live outside the camp. He is always leading us on.

Thank God for the men and women of times gone by who were obedient to the truth and spoke as much or as little as God would have them say. But we are now witnessing something that we have not witnessed in previous generations. What is the Holy Spirit speaking to us today? How is God leading us now? What is the present truth for our generation? And are we willing to follow the truth all the way to its unavoidable conclusion, no matter what it costs us in terms of reputation, comfort, acceptance, position, or fellowship with Churchianity?

Among those with spiritual discernment, there is an uncomfortable, embarrassing difference between the power and practice of the New Testament Church and the religious organizations and denominations that have since come into existence. What began as a living, Christ-centered faith has evolved into something far removed from what Jesus intended when He declared: “I will build My Church (Ekklesia), and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What IS this Church that Jesus is building? What does it look like? Where is it located? Who is in charge of it? Do the religious institutions and leaders of today really represent the faith that was first given to us by Christ, taught by the apostles and confirmed by the Holy Spirit? Or has Christianity been replaced by “Churchianity”?

Some say God is calling us to restore the Church to what it used to be. They believe the answer lies in preaching, repentance, reformation, and working from within the system to repair it.

But a growing number of Christians say that the Church as it exists today was never God’s intention in the first place. They have forsaken the “old wineskins” and religious structures of Christendom to follow Jesus in the simplicity that the early Christians followed Him. They are not called to fix the system, but to come out of it altogether. They still love the people, and are concerned for the people. They do miss something of the fellowship they once thought they had. And sometimes they miss it so much that they do go and visit other churches, trying to fit in, trying to find a place. But try as they might, something in them just cannot go along with it anymore.

Who are these people? They are part of a growing number of Christians that make up a “Church in the Wilderness” – followers of Jesus from all over the world who love God, and love God’s people, but reject the trappings of Sunday Morning Religion. This mass exodus of people from the religious system is not only inevitable, it is the fulfilment of prophecy, and sets the stage for “the final chapter in Christianity” – when Jesus suddenly returns to reward the Overcomers, judge the hypocrites, and establish His Kingdom on earth.

In his newest book, “The Church in the Wilderness: What It Means to Follow Jesus Outside of Organized Religion”, Chip tears down the sacred cows and religious traditions of “Churchianity” and paints a picture of what Jesus really wants. This book includes many of his most popular essays as well as some brand new material never released.

If you still attend church, you’ll be confronted and challenged to consider a different point of view. If you don’t attend church, you’ll be encouraged to know you are not alone. But regardless of what you believe, you’ll have your eyes opened to a spiritual vision of “church” the way Jesus meant for it to be.

I am your brother,

Chip Brogden

http://theschoolofchrist.org/

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